Monday, November 30, 2009

Latin Mass Appeal

I just read an article called Latin Mass Appeal (published in the NY Times)and it tells a little about who made the changes of the Mass & how Pope Benedict XVI is bringing the TLM back. The article also mentions that it's the younger generation who is helping the Latin Mass make it's wonderful come back.

I love the Latin Mass, and will be praying daily for these young Priests and Seminarians, I'm sure they'll have lots of road blocks on their journey.

Have any of you attended the Traditional Latin Mass before? Do you attend regularly? What is your opinion of the TLM?

9 comments:

Brooke H. said...

Every Sunday, love it, wish I could have it daily! :)

Batjacboy said...

I can't believe that was published in the NY Times!!

(Did Hell freeze over, and nobody told me?)

Sarah said...

I live in St. Louis and the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest has an Oratory here....we have daily mass, solemn high mass on sunday and daily benediction...plus all the sacraments...it's awesome!

Em said...

I'm not sure. The appeal of a mass that I neither can participate in nor understand is somewhat limited. How do I explain to my 4 year old what is happening, how to I respond to the prayers if I don't even understand Latin let alone speak it? The Church would have to go on a big educational campaign to make Latin Masses understandable to all. Which was what was catalyst for changing the Mass in the first place. I think we should understand what the ramifications to a wide section of the Catholic community would be, if Masses changed back to Latin before the Church does anything. Positive, maybe?

Batjacboy said...

Em,

One of the things that those who attend both forms of the Mass most often admit is that there’s MORE participation in a Traditional Latin Mass than a Novus Ordo. The TLM is riveting, never boring, with far more prayers for priest and people alike. And in the TLM you participate not only by offering the Sacrifice along with, and aligned with, the priest, but also by joining in the prayers in every respect, even if silently. And there’s no issue of “not understanding”—the missals have both languages side by side, and we know for a fact that 4-year-olds followed the TLM successfully for over 1600 years. You know 4-year-olds—they’re sponges, they learn whatever they’re properly taught. But the very best lesson you can teach your 4-year-old is that the Mass isn’t centered around us—it’s about God, first and foremost, first and last, and the little extra effort on our part is rewarded a hundredfold in the God-centered spiritual transcendency that the TLM offers over the Novus Ordo.

And the millions under the age of 40 who have switched back to the TLM needed no educational campaign—just the opportunity, and the desire, to try something “new”—that dates back, in part, to the Apostles themselves.

Em said...

Thanks Batjacboy. Your argument is compelling. And while I haven't been to a TLM in a long time, I still fail to see your point in some respects. I don't find current the Novus Ordo boring at all. Mass for me is extremely fulfilling, and I can fully appreciate everything that is going on without having to read something in a side by side missal. As for my four year old, yes you are right she is a sponge. But still, Latin is not something she can ever hope to speak with her parents and sister at home which could make Latin in Mass confusing and, dare I say it, irrelevant. And here's the kicker. While I agree with you that Mass is about God, the very reason for us to be there is to commune with others of our faith and share in the sacraments, so essentially there is no Mass without a faith community. We are an integral part of Mass and our needs (in terms of participating in prayer and understanding that prayer) should be considered. I don't go to Mass for a performance, I go to participate, and not just silently. While I consider myself a fairly orthadox Catholic, I find myself thinking that if Mass totally reverts back to TLM, that it could be a giant step backwards??
Just a question, how do we know for a fact that 4 yr olds followed the TLM for 1600 years? I don't think it counts just because they turned up. My 4yr old struggles with the English version, despite best attempts by her feeble mother.
Thanks though, Batjacboy. I feel that I need further information and guidance on this issue so I'm going to speak to a few more people about it and get their opinions.

Batjacboy said...

Em,

You said, “While I agree with you that Mass is about God, the very reason for us to be there is to commune with others of our faith and share in the sacraments, so essentially there is no Mass without a faith community.”

All due respect, this is theological nonsense. Are you unaware that all priests must say Mass every day, and if they’re not scheduled to say a public Mass, they must say it ALONE? Are those Masses worthless or even less important? There’s no community there, and no community needed, because the community is always, always, always incidental. The priest offers his Masses on behalf of his flock, whether they are there or not. It’s the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass--not a social event, in any respect, ever.

NEVER, in the history of Catholicism, has Mass ever been about the “faith community.” That’s why priests CAN say it alone. We have NEVER been “an integral part of the Mass.” Whoever told you that is fabricating a new, “self”-important theology, basing their belief on feelings and emotional desire, not any authentic theology. Someone making it about US, not God. God doesn’t need us, and since the Mass is the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of God, the Mass doesn’t need us, ever. And the very fact that priests say Mass alone proves it.

(The reason we know 4 year olds followed the TLM is that they’ve allowed 5 year olds to be altar servers. Can’t happen if they don’t have a thorough understanding of the Mass.)

Good for you to ask questions, though, and I don’t fault you for being fed unsubstantiable theology. Please ask for as many opinions as you need, and keep asking questions, but be intellectually honest about it. Don’t ask people who give you the “I go to Mass for this” or “I go to Mass for that” philosophy. There is no “I” in God, and no “I” in theology. And if anyone answers a question about going to Mass with any reason that doesn’t start with “Because God . . .” they aren’t to be trusted.

Molly said...

I was not introduced to the TLM until I was baptized in 2007, and had never even heard Latin spoken before.

The Latin Mass is beautiful, not because of some performance but because of its reverence, by not only the Priest but the congregation. Yes, I was a little lost at first, but I caught on pretty quickly. Now, do I speak Latin?? No I don't, but I can follow along in the Missals provided by the Churches.

You may think that you lose something by following in a side by side Missal, but that's soooo NOT TRUE, now I find that I have a greater understanding of what is happening at Mass.

Following in the Missal truly allows you to pray the Mass along with the Priest and be an active participant sending your prayers to heaven.

That's what the incense symbolizes: our prayers rising to God.

MAMA said...

HAVING TRAVELED THE WORLD AS A SMALL CHILD OVER FIFTY YEARS AGO, THE MOST COMFORTING ARENA OF MY FAITH WAS THAT NO MATTER WHERE WE WERE IN THE WORLD WE COULD GO INTO A CHURCH AND THE MASS WAS THE SAME ALL OVER. THE DEFINING ADHESIVE OF THE MASS ITSELF WAS THE TRADITIONAL LATIN THAT WAS USED THE WORLD OVER, CENTURY AFTER CENTURY. YOU KNEW THAT THE MASS YOU PARTICIPATED IN WAS THE SAME MASS SHARED BY ALL YOUR PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS AND BACK THROUGH THE YEARS. IT'S LOSS WAS UNWISE TO SAY THE LEAST. THE CHURCH LOST MORE PARTICIPANTS IN THE FOLLING DECADE THAN EVER BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF THE CHURCH. I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT THE POPE IS STRIVING TOWARDS A RESOLUTION REGARDING THE TRADITIONAL MASS.

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